Argument #4: Having “Gender Dysphoria” is equivalent to having “Species Dysphoria”.

Here is an argument that I actually hear more often then you would think… and this is one where I will actually give you a quote from someone I encountered from user “SpeechRacer” on YouTube:

I think the trans person is completely correct. I self identify as a dolphin and it’s almost impossible to explain what it’s like to hic-people (human identifying people). I’m worried that any hic-person I meet could try to kill/eat me or put me in a small prison like SeaWorld.

Obviously, this was said with much sarcasm… and when I tried to explain the difference to this user, I was told I was being judgmental of all people with species disorder and that they even “had a friend who self identifies as a cow” and that they “can’t imagine how she can get through the day.” Lesson learned by me, don’t feed the trolls!

The only reason why this is taken offensive by me, is for example in the comment section of the online newspaper I was reading about Medicaid finally covering SRS someone said that they were happy because now they were able to get the body modification of a cow that they were wanting their whole lives. Again, they were being heavily sarcastic and just mentally attacking trans folk. Wait… unless I managed to find SpeechRacer’s friend? Wow, small world!!!

Anyways, so yes, Species Dysphoria (SD) is a real thing that happens to a very small percentage of people, and most commonly the individual’s thought processes and perception were “usually logical”. I can accept this and accept these people for who they are, sure… but if you really have this problem then don’t try to sound sarcastic when trying to share this with the world or you may not be taken seriously, and may be assumed to be someone just trying to insult.

The verdict? Like I mentioned, I can accept someone with this condition for who they are. I have no issues with people like this, nor do I think they are wrong for being who they are inside. It is just in my opinion that this is definitely in the realm of mental issues more-so than having Gender Dysphoria (GD) which the brain itself is physically the other gender. As rare as it is for SD, there is no scientific data saying their brain is for example, half human/half dog. It’s not possible for someone with SD to have a cross-species brain in the same way someone with GD has a cross-sexed brain.

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16 Responses to Argument #4: Having “Gender Dysphoria” is equivalent to having “Species Dysphoria”.

  1. Spippy says:

    Bravo! Succinctly worded, just how I like it. 😀 You are a very wise and understanding person. Keep being awesome like that. ❤

    Liked by 1 person

    • Thank you kindly! I am trying to do what I can to get this blog more organized, and my thoughts more collected… so in the future look forward to some new posts, specially the ones where I am thinking of starting soon where I take actual comments made by people on various sites and actually pick it apart, informing people of the things people say to put down trans experiences, trans-phobias, bigotry, and sexism. I think I would have a lot of fun with it, and it would also be a good learning tool to arm allies with proper informational truths!


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  4. my question is… if you believe in evolution, we all came from fish etc… why can’t some people have dog tendencies? or dolphin tendencies? I don’t believe either is possible either, I believe such people have a disorder, but there is the question… I believe GD is a disorder as well and I have read a ton on the research people keep trying to site as ‘facts’ or ‘proof’ it isn’t… no such of a thing… seems, after all my reading and research, the results are spun by those trying to prove they are right, not by actual science, but by vague correlations yet unexplored let alone proven… not yet anyway.

    As I see it… from your perspective, one person’s ‘saner’ insanity, doesn’t negate their own need for ‘help’.

    We hear all the time arguments on how God doesn’t exist or creationism is mythology etc…. so to the person who would like to site evolution from nothingness… to space dust… to amoebas… to fish… to monkeys… to people… why can’t you believe it is quite possible a person can have canine tendencies ingrained in their particular DNA?… why should they be considered a ‘freak of nature’ or ‘deviant’ if they did? if we all share the same beginnings?

    Your argument, not mine. How does one suddenly negate another’s perceived mental problem, when they feel they have just championed their own and made progress for acceptance away from such a misunderstanding?

    And please… don’t reply with snarky and mean comments… I am not trying to be mean or sarcastic. I am only asking because I think it sounds like you are cherry-picking according to your own beliefs what is normal and what is not, which is no more than what you accused others of doing to you… now and in the past. How long did it take transgenders to get this far in fighting their way into acceptance? How long will it take these SD folks to get theirs, if they want it? Sure, SD it seems off the wall to you and me… but so does GD to the rest of us who don’t think like you either. Will you be the next in line to be called nasty, hateful and bigoted names in the future?

    I am just wondering why you are throwing stones at things science has yet to explain and things we just can’t say we don’t know about as far as ‘evolutionary’ data is concerned, the brain, the chemical make up of the brain, synapses, electrical impulses, personhood, gender (perceived or imagined).. we may never know. We just keep looking, testing, exploring, studying, examining, searching…. hoping we find more we didn’t know to explain what we think we knew.

    Why is it okay for you to draw the line for ‘normal’?… it wasn’t okay for the rest of us. Why should YOUR limit be THE limit to the formula for physiological, mental, biological normalcy and design?

    If you believe there is no God you have to leave the door open as to what is truly right or wrong… because man has gone and decided that… and man keeps changing it as he goes along too. There is not true right or wrong in nature… only man’s perceived order of things… till he discovers he is ‘wrong’ again or was ‘right’ the first time.

    We think we know something, have proof of something and then someone else will do a study and turn everything on it’s head again… happens all the time… look at what happened with Pluto.

    The only thing man has absolute proof of, is that he doesn’t know much.


    • Ya got me as I moved from one coast to another, so my apologies for the late reply.

      Your first question “why can’t some people have dog tendencies? or dolphin tendencies?”, they say the limbic system is our “lizard brain” because it is equivalent to the brains of lizards have… so if on an evolutionary level we have the brains of everything prior to us, this part of the brain could be what we originally had for brains, who knows… so yeah, to simplify it you can just say we all have “mammal tendencies” cause we all evolved from the same brain somewhere along the line. why should they be considered a ‘freak of nature’ or ‘deviant’ if they did? if we all share the same beginnings?”

      “As I see it… from your perspective, one person’s ‘saner’ insanity, doesn’t negate their own need for ‘help’.”
      If someone with Species Disorder lives a functional life, with a job, paying bills, not causing non-victimless crimes, etc… why do they need “help”? Cause you say they do being not like that? Do you think I need help because I am a trans woman?

      “why should they be considered a ‘freak of nature’ or ‘deviant’ if they did? if we all share the same beginnings?”
      Never called them either of those things, I actually said I can accept them for who they are… I did say I think SD is more in the realm of mental issues than GD because GD is pretty much a birth defect (lack or presence of hormones prenatally). Also, I don’t have mental issues, just body issues. So, you’ve misread something somewhere cause I also don’t believe in a “normal”, so I am not trying to say anyone is more normal than anyone else. Normal is boring anyways.

      “We think we know something, have proof of something and then someone else will do a study and turn everything on it’s head again… happens all the time… look at what happened with Pluto.
      The only thing man has absolute proof of, is that he doesn’t know much.”

      You are right, we can’t be certain we as humans really know anything… but we do have a very good concept of how things work… and with trans brain science we have evidence trans brains are not equivalent in form to their same assigned gender counterparts, and that look more like their gender identity’s counterparts… cause you see, I am a scientist. I need visible proof in front of me to believe something. They did brain scans, same kind that have accurately detected cancer and tumors in humans since it’s development, and the results back up what I’ve said here on my blog. I don’t think there’s enough people with SD to accurately test them, but maybe one day… but why should that matter is what I am getting at. I am just asking people to accept those who are trans, and who have SD, and that we deserve the same Civil Respect as anyone else… because we aren’t getting this respect, and therefore are repressed in this country. Same for those with SD too. I just want people to say, “I may not understand you, but I respect you for who you are.”

      Also, what happened with Pluto? You got me wondering what you meant by that. It’s not a planet anymore? That’s just subjectification.


  5. Respectfully confused and curious... says:

    So, I ran across your post while googling around and trying to understand the transgender aspect of the LGBTQIAPK community. I confess to being a cis white male who wants to be supportive and considerate, but who struggles to understand the core concept of transgender. This is not for a lack of trying/reading, which is how I came across your post.

    I can totally understand being gay and being physically attracted to a person of the same sex. The same goes for being bisexual. Although it is not the “standard” biological mating compulsion, I can see how someone would have feelings of sexual attraction for someone of the same sex as a result of nature and/or nurture. Attraction is a feeling, not a physical attribute, so it can exist exclusively in the context of the mind. The women that I’m attracted to aren’t necessarily the same women that my cousin is attracted to, and my other cousin, who is gay is not attracted to the women that either of us are attracted to. I’m sure there are a multitude of factors that contribute to why someone feels a sexual attraction for someone else, but I can see how someone would naturally be attracted to the same sex, and as a result, I feel not hesitation about support the right of people to love and be with someone else of the same sex who reciprocates.

    For me, transgender is harder to understand, and as a result I struggle with supporting transgender rights in general. First, let me say that I have no problem with transgender people whatsoever, but when I’m asked to support the fight for transgender rights, I have trouble mustering up the same indignation that I feel when LGB people are discriminated against.

    Contrary to the assertions in your post above, I think that the trans-species vs. transgender comparison is one that the LGBTQIAPK community needs to seriously consider and refute more effectively (if it’s possible to do so).

    You lay out the comparisons between the two positions and assert that because people being trans-species is often used as a vehicle to undermine the fight for rights for transgender people, trans-species people should not be taken seriously (which seems insensitive to anyone who really is trans-species). Moreover, you state that there is a scientific basis for gender dysphoria with the implication that it is far more common than species dysphoria, which you recognized is also a real condition.

    You end your post with this:

    “The verdict? Like I mentioned, I can accept someone with this condition for who they are. I have no issues with people like this, nor do I think they are wrong for being who they are inside. It is just in my opinion that this is definitely in the realm of mental issues more-so than having Gender Dysphoria (GD) which the brain itself is physically the other gender. As rare as it is for SD, there is no scientific data saying their brain is for example, half human/half dog. It’s not possible for someone with SD to have a cross-species brain in the same way someone with GD has a cross-sexed brain.”

    In that paragraph, you essentially articulate the same way that I feel about the transgender community. I can accept someone with the condition for who they are. I have no issue with people who are transgender, nor do I think that they are wrong for living in a way that is consistent with the gender that they identify with.

    However, you go on to say that “the brain itself is physically the other gender” in transgender people. Whereas you argue that it’s impossible for someone to have a “cross-species brain,” because it’s biologically impossible for them to be half human, half other species.

    This statement is problematic to me. The brain of a transgender woman who was born as a man is still comprised of DNA, which contains an X and Y chromosome. Humans have not reached a point in science where through gene editing it’s possible to transition your DNA from male to female or vice versa. So, while transgender people may feel that they were born with the “wrong sex” and want to transition, the brain itself is absolutely NOT “physically the other gender” and never can be.

    You’ve raised a question of acceptance. In your mind, it’s acceptable and reasonable to be transgender. Therefore, people who are transgender should be accepted and receive protection to live as their post-transition gender as an intrinsic right (similar to the protections afforded to people regardless of race, religion, creed, sex, or sexual orientation, etc.). In contrast, you’ve asserted that trans-species people aren’t entitled to the same consideration because their identity falls “within the realm of mental issues.”

    Presumably you are transgender, and so you are somewhat biased in considering whether or not it is reasonable to be transgender. As a result, you see transgender as reasonable and trans-species as ridiculous.

    From the perspective of someone like me, who is not transgender, distinguishing between trans-species as a mental issue and transgender as a physiological condition on the basis of the brain being “cross-gendered” is inappropriate. I can’t, in one breath say transgender is totally normal and reasonable, and then turn around and say that trans-species is totally ridiculous and unreasonable. You’re physiologically born as a human or you are not. Similarly, you are physiologically born as a man or a woman (with the very limited exception of hermaphrodites).

    I guess my point is: the reason that people draw the comparison that you discuss above is because from a perspective outside the transgender community, whether you’re taking hormones and having cosmetic surgery because you want to appear to have been born as the opposite sex, or whether you’re doing it because you want to appear to have been born as a cow (taken from your example above), you’re still not going to have been anatomically/biologically born as what you’re presenting yourself as. And that’s not to say that you shouldn’t be entitled to present yourself to the world in whatever way you want, you certainly are.

    Just as free speech protects your right to say whatever you want, but does not protect you from the societal consequences associated with saying something unpopular, you are entitled to present yourself to the world in whatever way that you want, but that doesn’t mean that the world has to enjoy the presentation.

    Again, I want to state that my goal in posting is not to “troll” or undermine the trans-community, but rather to have the kind of genuine discussion that you mention on the home page of your site. I want to understand and appreciate the difference and the distinction that you’ve drawn between transgender and trans-species, and ideally, I’d like to be able to support the trans community without discomfort or compunction.

    At this point, I feel like the comparison made above, while hyperbolic, is far more apt than you make it out to be. The reason that trans-species people, or worse “other-kin”, are so harmful to the transgender community’s cause is because it’s very difficult to say where the line of what’s reasonable and what’s ridiculous is, once you’ve said that biology is no longer a factor in determining attributes like gender.

    In short, once something based on physiology, like gender, becomes a mental construct, why don’t other things that are also based on physiology, also become mental constructs? It seems to me, either they both are reasonable or they’re both unreasonable, and that’s part of what makes this comparison problematic for the trans community.

    I look forward to your response and further discussion and hope that it is able to alter my current perspective. Thanks.


  6. I can explain this easily… the brains of humans have parts that are found to be different between the sexes of adults, a dimorphism (look up Bed Nucleus of the Stria Terminalis). Trans people are born with this part of the brain formed and look more like the average brains of the gender they identify as.

    Cross species brains on the other hand are not possible without genetically crossing humans and the species of your choice here. People who think they are cats can’t have a cross species brain of half cat without one of their partents’ being a cat.

    DNA here, chromosomes specifically, don’t matter in a person’s gender identity… we all run on the X we get from our mothers, and the Y is only there to activate the SRY gene to start the fetus to develop a male body… the man also has a 50/50 to pass his Y to make more boys too… both cases Gender Identity doesn’t matter because the brain forms at a different point in time, and androgens have a huge affect on prenatal brains… and what happens if a male didn’t get enough? The brain stays in a female pattern, trans women. With girls the mother doesn’t produce as many androgens, them being detrimental to the fetus and in excess creating here trans men.


    • Respectfully confused and curious... says:


      Thanks for the response. I understand that this isn’t exactly a full time job, so no problem on the delay.

      I don’t think that you should ever say that you can explain such a complex issue “easily.” I’m taking my effort to understand this issue seriously. If this was “easy” to explain on understand, then it wouldn’t be such a cultural hot button right now.

      I looked into the things you mentioned. Specifically, I read up on the role of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis in sexual dimorphic function (ie. whether you’ll act like a man or a woman). While wikipedia was a good starting place, there is certainly a fair amount of scholarly material on the subject.

      There was a study in 1995 (link: ; Note, full text was not free) that apparently looked at 6 male-to-female transsexuals, who were taking estrogen. The suggestion of the study is that male transsexuals have “female” stria terminalis. The article claims that the size of the stria terminalis was not affected by sex hormones and did not affect sexual orientation. This appears to be the first appearance of the stria terminalis based “brain sex” theory that you mentioned in your response.

      There was a second study which looked at women, or more specifically, ONE WOMAN, and found the reverse, which was performed in 2000 (link: ) . In this study, a doctor from the same institute that conducted the first study, added a single female to male transsexual person and an 84 year old man who had strong “cross-gender identity feelings, but who was never sex-reassigned or treated… with estrogen…”

      So between these two studies, we have a total of 8 people in this study, 6 M-to-F transsexuals, 1 F-to-M transsexual, and 1 84 year old man who was reportedly “confused,” but not really transsexual.

      In 2002, another study was released, which found that the size differences of stria terminalis between men and women only became significant in adulthood (full text available here: ) To me, this undermines the finding of the first two studies because, as the article itself recognizes: “Late sexual differentiation of the human BSTc volume also affects our perception about the relationship between BSTs [sic] volume and transsexuality. . . . Epidemiological studies show that the awareness of gender problems is generally present much earlier. Indeed, [about] 67-78% of transsexuals in adulthood report having strong feelings of being born in the wrong body from childhood onward.”

      The article goes on to conclude that it has not debunked the earlier studies because maybe transsexual people know what biology does not yet know. Maybe they can tell from an early age how their stria terminalis will develop and it is only objectively visible later in life. Again, we still only have the suggestion of transsexual tendencies based on the size of the stria terminalis in post-hormone therapy adults.

      These studies are problematic to me. To attempt to conclude that your brain is biologically different from birth by studying post-hormone therapy transsexual adults is, at best, a scientifically problematic basis for such a theory. In my mind, there is no control and thus these studies don’t show much of anything, other than the potential affect of hormone therapy on transsexual adults.

      To my reading, the Zhou/Kruijver findings seem to reflect the effects of transgender hormone therapy. It has been known for years that changes in androgen levels during adulthood can change the volume of sexually dimorphic brain nuclei in the expected direction in experimental animals (Cooke, Tabibnia, & Breedlove, 1999) (link: ). Based on that, it seems plausible that changes in hormone levels in adult transsexuals can have similar effects on sexually dimorphic brain structures, (ie the stria terminalis).

      My point is made by a more recent study by Hulshoff Pol et al. (2006) (link: ), which demonstrated the profound effect of transgender hormone therapy on brain volume in transsexuals: In eight M-to-F transsexuals treated for 4 months with ethinyl estradiol and CPA, total brain volume and hypothalamic volume decreased significantly with hormone therapy, based on pre- and post-treatment MRI studies. In a control group of nine untreated non-transsexual men, total brain volume and hypothalamic volume increased slightly over a similar period. In six F-to-M transsexuals treated for 4 months with testosterone, total brain volume increased and hypothalamic volume remained unchanged, whereas in a control group of six untreated non-transsexual women, total brain volume remained unchanged and hypothalamic volume decreased.

      “The findings suggest that treatment of M-to-F transsexuals with estrogens and antiandrogens decreases the male brain size toward female proportions, whereas treatment of F-to-M transsexuals with androgens (not substantially affecting circulating estrogen levels) increases the female brain size toward male proportions. The magnitude of this change (i.e., 31 ml over a 4-month period) is striking, since it signifies a decrease in brain volume, which is at least ten times the average decrease of about 2.5 ml a year in healthy adults. . . The total brain volume changes are at least in part due to changes in medial brain structures surrounding [the] ventricles (including, but not limited to, the hypothalamus . . .).”

      The article goes on to suggest that cross-sex hormone therapy might have been responsible for the Zhou/Kruijver findings:

      “The bed nucleus of the stria terminalis of the hypothalamus, larger in males than in females, was found to be of female size in six MFs and of male size in one FM. All these transsexuals had received cross-sex hormone treatment before their brains were studied. Therefore, the altered size of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis could have been due to the exposure of cross-sex hormones in adult life.”

      Based on the 2006 study, it seems fairly clear to me that the findings, which reflect that M-to-F trans-adults have a “more feminine brain” and that F-to-M trans-adults have a “more masculine brain” can be easily explained by the presence of hormone therapy in study participants, which to be clear, was a fairly small group to begin with, and which provided no real control. Moreover, the fact that the stria terminalis doesn’t reflect gender identifying differences until adulthood further diminishes the notion of being born “trans” or having a trans-gendered brain at birth, at least based on the physiology of the stria terminalis.

      To say that DNA and Y-chromosomes don’t matter because all they do is determine the physical sex of a person seems inappropriately dismissive, especially in the context of support based on studies like those I mention above.

      If there are other studies based on the androgen theory that you advance in your final paragraph, I’d be happy to take a look at them, but I’d encourage you to consider what kind of number participated in the study and what kind of insight it can really offer based on the methods employed.

      I don’t begrudge anyone having the feeling that they’re a “female” when they were biologically born a man, or vice versa. That doesn’t bother me at all. I just don’t see a scientific basis for it being significantly different from someone who feels that they’re a “cat” when they were biologically born a human. I don’t have a problem with people who live that way, i just don’t feel driven to support their struggle for acceptance in the context of modern society.

      I hope this makes sense and doesn’t seem insensitive. I look forward to your future responses when you have time.



        That’s a good read to maybe help sum it up better… there have been controls for hormone replacement therapy, “Their results, published in 2013, showed that even before treatment the brain structures of the trans people were more similar in some respects to the brains of their experienced gender than those of their natal gender.” talking about a study done by Antonio Guillamon in 2013.

        There is enough evidence to say there is indeed a difference in the brains of trans people, and before the HRT is involved. In fact, that other study just shows how much HRT does to help change a person’s biology, meaning trans people are biologically closer to their gender identity after starting it.

        I don’t know how else to explain how cross species can’t work, trans people have an actual biological basis, and people who are cross species don’t, having brains indistinguishable from their average peers.

        This is also why I say chromosomes don’t matter here is because, again, our bodies only use the X. There is a XY woman with AIS who delivered children, and plenty of other conditions where chromosomes and Gender Identity do not match in a predictable pattern. I have more on this in a different post.


  7. Respectfully confused and curious... says:


    I can’t reply directly to your most recent post for some reason, but I wanted to thank you for the additional resource. I’ll take a look at the study and report back.


  8. unorthodoxplatypus says:

    You realise this sounds exactly like the same sort of parasitic, prejudiced brain rot that transgender people endure, right? And transgender people don’t even like the physiological attachment to gender on average, it’s just a shallow misunderstanding of what gender identity is.

    If you want to not suffer, you shouldn’t force others to. You know, if you don’t want to be judged then don’t throw the first stone. As it is, you’ve attacked transspecies individuals with an argument of transgender “supremacy.” This is going to result in both reasonable, intelligent, ethical transgender people and transspecies people not liking you. All people deserve their share of happiness, sympathy, and freedom from suffering.

    Whether it’s autism, transspecies, gay, transgender… It doesn’t matter what it is, it’s shallow and idiotic to draw lines in the sand between people who suffer. I see shallow people like you attacking transethnicity people even for feeling much the same thing that transgender people do. It’s just parasitic, it’s a really filthy sort of “LOOK AT ME!” attitude that comes across more as a desire to be an extraverted special snowflake than it does to help anyone.

    You’re not helping anyone. You’re just looking like an entitled twat who’ll hurt people for attention.


    • You don’t use a real email so I doubt a reply, and this is obvious trolling that is quite the failed attempt to make me look like the bad guy. I do not say anything judgmental, nor do I disrespect anyone who may have species disorder; i.e. I’ve cast no stones my friend.

      Did you miss the part where I wrote “I can accept someone with this condition for who they are. I have no issues with people like this, nor do I think they are wrong for being who they are inside.”?


      • Respectfully confused and curious... says:

        I assume that the message was in response to my comments.

        Frankly, I’m comfortable being attacked by someone compelled to defend the concept of being trans-species as a legitimate normal mental state.

        Is transethincity a thing? Doesn’t adding “trans” to any sort of definitive characteristic just devalue and undermine transgender people’s credibility?


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